Some early emails concerning the start of a new project.
To: Linux-Activists@BLOOM-PICAYUNE.MIT.EDU
From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
Subject: Birthday (was Re: Uptime found. Thanks to all)
Date: 31 Jul 92 22:15:20 GMT
In article Jul30.211132.20101@cc.umontreal.ca> duperval@ERE.UMontreal.CA
(Duperval Laurent) writes:
>
>P.S. BTW, noone answered yet: when is Linux's birthday? Let's have a
>party!
--------------------
> From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
> Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
> Subject: Gcc-1.40 and a posix-question
> Message-ID: Jul3.100050.9886@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
> Date: 3 Jul 91 10:00:50 GMT
>
> Hello netlanders,
>
> Due to a project I'm working on (in minix), I'm interested in the posix
> standard definition. Could somebody please point me to a (preferably)
> machine-readable format of the latest posix rules? Ftp-sites would be
> nice.
--------------------
> Linus Torvalds torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi
>
> PS. Could someone please try to finger me from overseas, as I've
> installed a "changing .plan" (made by your's truly), and I'm not certain
> it works from outside? It should report a new .plan every time.
--------------------
> From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
> Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
> Subject: What would you like to see most in minix?
> Summary: small poll for my new operating system
> Message-ID: Aug25.205708.9541@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
> Date: 25 Aug 91 20:57:08 GMT
> Organization: University of Helsinki
>
>
> Hello everybody out there using minix -
>
> I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
> professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
> since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
> things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
> (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
> among other things).
>
> I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
> This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
> I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
> are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-)
>
> Linus (torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
> It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
> will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.
--------------------
> From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
> Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
> Subject: Re: What would you like to see most in minix?
> Summary: yes - it's nonportable
> Message-ID: Aug26.110602.19446@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
> Date: 26 Aug 91 11:06:02 GMT
> Organization: University of Helsinki
>
> In article Aug25.234450.22562@nntp.hut.fi> jkp@cs.HUT.FI (Jyrki Kuoppala) writes:
> >> [re: my post about my new OS]
> >
> >Tell us more! Does it need a MMU?
>
> Yes, it needs a MMU (sorry everybody), and it specifically needs a
> 386/486 MMU (see later).
>
> >
> >>PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
> >>It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc)
> >
> >How much of it is in C? What difficulties will there be in porting?
> >Nobody will believe you about non-portability ;-), and I for one would
> >like to port it to my Amiga (Mach needs a MMU and Minix is not free).
>
> Simply, I'd say that porting is impossible. It's mostly in C, but most
> people wouldn't call what I write C. It uses every conceivable feature
> of the 386 I could find, as it was also a project to teach me about the
> 386. As already mentioned, it uses a MMU, for both paging (not to disk
> yet) and segmentation. It's the segmentation that makes it REALLY 386
> dependent (every task has a 64Mb segment for code & data - max 64 tasks
> in 4Gb. Anybody who needs more than 64Mb/task - tough cookies).
>
> It also uses every feature of gcc I could find, specifically the __asm__
> directive, so that I wouldn't need so much assembly language objects.
> Some of my "C"-files (specifically mm.c) are almost as much assembler as
> C. It would be "interesting" even to port it to another compiler (though
> why anybody would want to use anything other than gcc is a mystery).
>
> Unlike minix, I also happen to LIKE interrupts, so interrupts are
> handled without trying to hide the reason behind them (I especially like
> my hard-disk-driver. Anybody else make interrupts drive a state-
> machine?). All in all it's a porters nightmare.
>
> >As for the features; well, pseudo ttys, BSD sockets, user-mode
> >filesystems (so I can say cat /dev/tcp/kruuna.helsinki.fi/finger),
> >window size in the tty structure, system calls capable of supporting
> >POSIX.1. Oh, and bsd-style long file names.
>
> Most of these seem possible (the tty structure already has stubs for
> window size), except maybe for the user-mode filesystems. As to POSIX,
> I'd be delighted to have it, but posix wants money for their papers, so
> that's not currently an option. In any case these are things that won't
> be supported for some time yet (first I'll make it a simple minix-
> lookalike, keyword SIMPLE).
>
> Linus (torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> PS. To make things really clear - yes I can run gcc on it, and bash, and
> most of the gnu [bin/file]utilities, but it's not very debugged, and the
> library is really minimal. It doesn't even support floppy-disks yet. It
> won't be ready for distribution for a couple of months. Even then it
> probably won't be able to do much more than minix, and much less in some
> respects. It will be free though (probably under gnu-license or similar).
--------------------
> From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
> Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
> Subject: Free minix-like kernel sources for 386-AT
> Message-ID: Oct5.054106.4647@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
> Date: 5 Oct 91 05:41:06 GMT
> Organization: University of Helsinki
>
> Do you pine for the nice days of minix-1.1, when men were men and wrote
> their own device drivers? Are you without a nice project and just dying
> to cut your teeth on a OS you can try to modify for your needs? Are you
> finding it frustrating when everything works on minix? No more all-
> nighters to get a nifty program working? Then this post might be just
> for you :-)
>
> As I mentioned a month(?) ago, I'm working on a free version of a
> minix-lookalike for AT-386 computers. It has finally reached the stage
> where it's even usable (though may not be depending on what you want),
> and I am willing to put out the sources for wider distribution. It is
> just version 0.02 (+1 (very small) patch already), but I've successfully
> run bash/gcc/gnu-make/gnu-sed/compress etc under it.
>
> Sources for this pet project of mine can be found at nic.funet.fi
> (128.214.6.100) in the directory /pub/OS/Linux. The directory also
> contains some README-file and a couple of binaries to work under linux
> (bash, update and gcc, what more can you ask for :-). Full kernel
> source is provided, as no minix code has been used. Library sources are
> only partially free, so that cannot be distributed currently. The
> system is able to compile "as-is" and has been known to work. Heh.
> Sources to the binaries (bash and gcc) can be found at the same place in
> /pub/gnu.
>
> ALERT! WARNING! NOTE! These sources still need minix-386 to be compiled
> (and gcc-1.40, possibly 1.37.1, haven't tested), and you need minix to
> set it up if you want to run it, so it is not yet a standalone system
> for those of you without minix. I'm working on it. You also need to be
> something of a hacker to set it up (?), so for those hoping for an
> alternative to minix-386, please ignore me. It is currently meant for
> hackers interested in operating systems and 386's with access to minix.
>
> The system needs an AT-compatible harddisk (IDE is fine) and EGA/VGA. If
> you are still interested, please ftp the README/RELNOTES, and/or mail me
> for additional info.
>
> I can (well, almost) hear you asking yourselves "why?". Hurd will be
> out in a year (or two, or next month, who knows), and I've already got
> minix. This is a program for hackers by a hacker. I've enjouyed doing
> it, and somebody might enjoy looking at it and even modifying it for
> their own needs. It is still small enough to understand, use and
> modify, and I'm looking forward to any comments you might have.
>
> I'm also interested in hearing from anybody who has written any of the
> utilities/library functions for minix. If your efforts are freely
> distributable (under copyright or even public domain), I'd like to hear
> from you, so I can add them to the system. I'm using Earl Chews estdio
> right now (thanks for a nice and working system Earl), and similar works
> will be very wellcome. Your (C)'s will of course be left intact. Drop me
> a line if you are willing to let me use your code.
>
> Linus
>
> PS. to PHIL NELSON! I'm unable to get through to you, and keep getting
> "forward error - strawberry unknown domain" or something.
--------------------
> From: torvalds@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
> Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
> Subject: Re: Status of LINUX?
> Summary: Still in beta
> Message-ID: Dec19.233545.8114@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
> Date: 19 Dec 91 23:35:45 GMT
> Organization: University of Helsinki
>
> In article @htsa.htsa.aha.nl> miquels@maestro.htsa.aha.nl (Miquel van Smoorenburg) writes:
> >Hello *,
> > I know some people are working on a FREE O/S for the 386/486,
> >under the name Linux. I checked nic.funet.fi now and then, to see what was
> >happening. However, for the time being I am without FTP access so I don't
> >know what is going on at the moment. Could someone please inform me about it?
> >It's maybe best to follow up to this article, as I think that there are
> >a lot of potential interested people reading this group. Note, that I don't
> >really *have* a >= 386, but I'm sure in time I will.
>
> Linux is still in beta (although available for brave souls by ftp), and
> has reached the version 0.11. It's still not as comprehensive as
> 386-minix, but better in some respects. The "Linux info-sheet" should
> be posted here some day by the person that keeps that up to date. In
> the meantime, I'll give some small pointers.
>
> First the bad news:
>
> - Still no SCSI: people are working on that, but no date yet.
> Thus you need a AT-interface disk (I have one report that it
> works on an EISA 486 with a SCSI disk that emulates the
> AT-interface, but that's more of a fluke than anything else:
> ISA+AT-disk is currently the hardware setup)
>
> - still no init/login: you get into bash as root upon bootup.
>
> - although I have a somewhat working VM (paging to disk), it's not
> ready yet. Thus linux needs at least 4M to be able to run the
> GNU binaries (especially gcc). It boots up in 2M, but you
> cannot compile.
>
> - minix still has a lot more users: better support.
>
> - it hasn't got years of testing by thousands of people, so there
> are probably quite a few bugs yet.
>
> Then for the good things..
>
> - It's free (copyright by me, but freely distributable under a
> very lenient copyright)
>
> - it's fun to hack on.
>
> - /real/ multithreading filesystem.
>
> - uses the 386-features. Thus locked into the 386/486 family, but
> it makes things clearer when you don't have to cater to other
> chips.
>
> - a lot more... read my .plan.
>
> /I/ think it's better than minix, but I'm a bit prejudiced. It will
> never be the kind of professional OS that Hurd will be (in the next
> century or so :), but it's a nice learning tool (even more so than
> minix, IMHO), and it was/is fun working on it.
>
> Linus (torvalds@kruuna.helsinki.fi)
>
> ---- my .plan --------------------------
> Free UNIX for the 386 - coming 4QR 91 or 1QR 92.
>
> The current version of linux is 0.11 - it has most things a unix kernel
> needs, and will probably be released as 1.0 as soon as it gets a little
> more testing, and we can get a init/login going. Currently you get
> dumped into a shell as root upon bootup.
>
> Linux can be gotten by anonymous ftp from 'nic.funet.fi' (128.214.6.100)
> in the directory '/pub/OS/Linux'. The same directory also contains some
> binary files to run under Linux. Currently gcc, bash, update, uemacs,
> tar, make and fileutils. Several people have gotten a running system,
> but it's still a hackers kernel.
>
> Linux still requires a AT-compatible disk to be useful: people are
> working on a SCSI-driver, but I don't know when it will be ready.
>
> There are now a couple of other sites containing linux, as people have
> had difficulties with connecting to nic. The sites are:
> Tupac-Amaru.Informatik.RWTH-Aachen.DE (137.226.112.31):
> directory /pub/msdos/replace
> tsx-11.mit.edu (18.172.1.2):
> directory /pub/linux
>
> There is also a mailing list set up 'Linux-activists@niksula.hut.fi'.
> To join, mail a request to 'Linux-activists-request@niksula.hut.fi'.
> It's no use mailing me: I have no actual contact with the mailing-list
> (other than being on it, naturally).
>
> Mail me for more info:
>
> Linus (torvalds@kruuna.Helsinki.FI)
>
> 0.11 has these new things:
>
> - demand loading
> - code/data sharing between unrelated processes
> - much better floppy drivers (they actually work mostly)
> - bug-corrections
> - support for Hercules/MDA/CGA/EGA/VGA
> - the console also beeps (WoW! Wonder-kernel :-)
> - mkfs/fsck/fdisk
> - US/German/French/Finnish keyboards
> - settable line-speeds for com1/2
>
> Still lacking:
> - init/login
> - rename system call
> - named pipes
> - symbolic links
>
> 0.12 will probably be out in January (15th or so), and will have:
> - POSIX job control (by tytso)
> - VM (paging to disk)
> - Minor corrections
